Thomas Runciman (m. Mary REDPATH)1,2

(circa 1791 - 3 Dec 1885)
Father*Thomas Runciman (m. Jean SIMPSON)3,5,6,4 (circa Jul 1762 - bet. 1841 - 1851)
Mother*Jean Simpson3,4 (bet. 1756 - 1761 - bet. 1841 - 1851)

Intro

     Does a tailor become a hind? Are there two families here or one?
With the differences in occupation I had doubts about my identification of these family connections, however "reasonable" they seemed when I first made them.
My answer is now yes, as at least the son of a taylor does indeed become a hind/land steward. I had the answer all along, the death cert. of son John clearly shows his father (John married to Marion Weatherly) as a land steward.

The tailor connection:
1783: Thomas Runciman and Jean Simpson marry in Haddington, Thomas a taylor, (recorded in the Dunbar OPR)
1784: John, son of Thomas and Jean (Simpson), taylor at Broxburn born/baptised
This John is linked to the one married to May/Marion Weatherly through the latter 's marriage which gives John's father as Thomas, albeit with no occupations listed for either father or son.
An earlier Thomas was a tailor, eg 1770 bap. Alexander s/o Thomas and Barbara Wallis - which latter surname features as a witness somewhere (yet to be refound)

The farming connections (which may or may not indicate a different family despite the same wife's names):
1798: at Crawhill: a son George born to Thomas a hind.
1808 Isabella born to John and May (Weatherly) which may be the link crossing the boundary between tailor Thomas and hind Thomas.
1871 death of John son of John and Marion (Weatherly) in Edinburgh, father John shown as a land steward, deceased.

1869 Robert (married to Agnes King) is linked because his death cert states his father as Thomas, ag labourer, but mother not named
1885 Thomas (married to Mary Redpath) is linked because his death cert states his parents as Thomas, general labourer, and Jane, albeit without a surname for Jane.

Alexander (married to Joan Manderson) is linked to farming Thomas by naming pattern of his children, and because a Thomas, hind was witness to several of his children's baptisms, at Mickle Pinkerton, which place features in several earlier entries in the Dunbar OPRs, eg birth of George 1734 to Thomas and Helen (Stevensone).

Alexander, possibly this one, is linked as witness to marriage of John and Marion Weatherly at Oldhamstocks (banns Innerwick where father Thomas was cautioner for the groom)

Once Alexander is linked in, this also links in the George married to Janet Darling, as their respective children Agnes and George are documented on their 1861 marriage cert as first cousins.
With large gaps in the known children for George and Janet there was room to fit in a son Thomas, who has now been found (died Edinburgh 1877) to add naming pattern into the evidence for the prosecution

Until I found the Crawhill connection I was coming to the conclusion that there were two families, but even with the Crawhill connection between Alexander's and John's families, it still isn't really "proof" that they are one family but could be indicative of two Johns, one son of the tailor, the other married to May Weatherly.7,8,9
      (there are two births recorded in the OPR index to a Thomas and Jean (Simpson), one John (1784, Dunbar), the other George (1798 Innerwick). Given George is a family name for descendants, this does look a likely match for the parents of the Thomas who married Mary Redpath, despite the lack of a baptism entry - which conculsion is now - Jun 2014 - supported by dna evidence.)10,5,6,4

BDMs

     Thomas Runciman was born circa 1791 Dunbar, ELN, SCT, the only Thomas recorded in the OPRs around this time was born/baptised Dunbar 1791, the son of Peter RUNCIMAN and Jean SMITH, and he is believed to have married Isabella CRAIG;
Another candidate conisidered before Thomas' death cert was discovered, was the family of Thomas and Elizabeth (KEMP) RUNCIMAN who were having children around this time in Innerwick. Thomas could slot in between Isabel 1785 and Helen 1792.
A better candidate has now been found, given that his death cert (at age 99 and 11 months) states his parents are a Thomas and Jane (m.s. unknown), which together with assorted circumstantial evidence, leads to Thomas and Jean (SIMPSON) RUNCIMAN instead.
Thomas and Jean (SIMPSON) only have two births recorded in the OPR index: one John (1784, Dunbar), the other George (1798 Innerwick). Given George is a family name for descendants, this does look a likely match for the parents of the Thomas who married Mary Redpath, despite the lack of a baptism entry.11,12,6,5,3,13 He married Mary Redpath on 5 Dec 1812 Innerwick, ELN, SCT; (same yr that a Thomas marr. Isabel CRAIG in Dunbar) Thomas of Spott, Mary of Innerwick.2,14,13
     Thomas Runciman died on 3 Dec 1885 Cairncross, Par. of Coldingham, BEW, SCT; cert. shows Thomas as 99 yrs 11 mos, ploughman, widower of Mary Redpath; s/o Thomas Runciman gen lab and Jane m.s. unknown, both dec'd; d 1:45pm of old age, no medical attendant; Inf. son Thomas X his mark, present; Reg. Coldingham Dec 6th.3
We have a conundrum.
Admittedly incomplete paper trails led to the inclusion of the following as children of Thomas and Jean:
John who married to Marion/May Weatherley,
Alexander who married Joan Manderson,
Thomas who married Mary Redpath,
Robert who married Agnes King,
George who married Janet Darling,
and of the William who married Janet Paxton.

The initial three sets of dna results for some of the above showed the theory might be a bit flawed, three kits, none matching the other, but one (descendant of John) matching others in Lineage 1 overall
However as of Jun 2014 a fourth kit, from the line of son Thomas, gave us a match between descendants of John and Thomas, both matching the rest of Lineage 1.
Jun 2016 brought in a representative from son George, and yet another match, so 4 lines now tested with 5 kits, with John, Thomas and George now looking good as sons of Thomas and Mary.

We still need Robert and Alexander represented, and a confirming dna signature from son William however.

As the line of William and Janet (Paxton) Runciman appears to have "daughtered out" on the lines other than the 1st cousins of the participant already tested, it may be that we have to look for descendants of any lines willing to try autosomal dna (FamilyFinder) - although that may be a bit of a long shot, given the randomness of atDNA inheritance, especially when trying to find DNA matches on relationships beyond 3rd cousins.15
At least one tree on ancestry has the John married to Isabella Palmer/Pilmuir as son of Thomas and Isabella (CRAIG) another has him as son of Thomas and Mary (REDPATH), the latter can be confirmed by a birth record in the OPRs, and known children show 1st son Thomas, 2nd daughter Mary, which also fits the naming pattern. No evidence has yet been found for a son John in the RUNCIMAN/CRAIG family.
The Thomas' were contemporaries, both marrying in 1812, one in Dunbar, the other at Innerwick; one a sailor dying in 1880, the other a labourer dying in 1885.16,17,3

Census

     Thomas Runciman and Mary Runciman appeared on the census of 1841 Oxenridge, Par. of Coldstream, BEW, SCT, and are assumed to be husband and wife. They were enumerated as RUNCIAMAN: Thomas 45 ag lab b BEW; Mary 45 b BEW; Mary 15, William 14 both b BEW.18
     Thomas Runciman was shown as the head of the household in the census of 1851 Skaithmoor, Par. of Coldstream, BEW, SCT, with Mary enumerated as RUNCIMAN: Thomas 60 farm servt b Dunbar, ELN; wife Mary 60 b Buncle BEW; Lodger James CRAIG 51 shepherd b Eckford, ROX.13
     The census of 1861 showed Thomas in the household of his son John and his wife Isabella Runciman, and their sons Thomas, George and John, and their daughters Isabel, Mary and Cathrine Little Town Farm, Pittington, DUR, ENG, enumerated as RUNCIMAN: John 42 farm bailiff; wife Isabella 43 both b SCT; Children: Thomas 19 ag lab, Isabell 17, Mary 14, George 11, Cathrine 9 all scholars, b SCT John 2 b Pittington, DUR; Father Thomas 70 widower b SCT.11
     The census of 1871 showed Thomas in the household of his son John and his wife Isabella Runciman, and their dtr Cathrine at Pittington, Co. Durham, enumerated as RUNCIMAN: John 53? farm bailiff; Isabella 52 both b SCT; Children: Catherine 19 b SCT; John 12 scholar b Pittington, DUR; Father Thomas 79 widower, labourer b SCT.19
     Thomas Runciman appeared on the census of 1881 Chirnside, BEW, SCT, enumerated as SMITH: George 61 ag lab b Abbey St Bathans, BEW; wife Janet 58 b Innerwick, ELN; Children: George 21 ag lab b Coldingham, BEW; Catherine 17 farm serv b Edrom BEW; Grdsons: William 10 scholar b Whitsome, BEW; George 8 scholar b Mordington, BEW; Father-in-law Thomas RUNCIMAN 90 b Dunbar.20

Names/other info

     Thomas outlived his wife Mary Redpath who died in Jul 1859.21

DNA Info

     Thomas belongs to a tested line in the RUNCIMAN Surname DNA Project. Follow this link for further DNA information.

Links

     Click here to see Thomas's page on WikiTree, a (free) collaborative on-line tree.22

Researcher(s)

     Thomas Runciman (m. Mary REDPATH) is the ancestor of researcher Neil Runciman (R-9). Email: Neil.23 Thomas's line is also being researched by Jere Runciman (R-18). He has helped us out with the conundrum of Thomas and Jean (SIMPSON) R's descendants with their mixed ydna results
Email: Jere.24

Family

Mary Redpath (circa 1791 - Jul 1859)
Children
ChartsLineage 1d: Alexander & Janet (HENDRIE) RUNCIMAN of Dunbar, ELN
Wanted: Thomas and Jean (Simpson) Runciman
Wanted: Thomas and Mary (Redpath) Runciman
Last Edited28 Jun 2014

Citations

  1. [S102] Scotlands People Index, "OPR East Lothian, SCT RUNCIMAN Births 1538-1854", Birth (Bap?) John 25 Oct 1818 John s/o Thomas RUNCIMAN & Mary REDPATH, Innerwick, ELN 711/ 0030 0322, extracted from index Feb 2010.
  2. [S103] Scotlands People Index, "OPR East Lothian SctP RUNCIMAN Marriages 1538-1854", Marr. 5 Dec 1812 Thomas RUNCIMAN & Mary RIDPATH, Innerwick, 711/ 0030 0414, extracted from index Feb 2010.
  3. [S56] Scottish BMDB entries (from 1855), http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/index.php, Dth 3 Dec 1885 Thomas s/o Thomas & Jane RUNCIMAN, aged 99 yrs 11 mths, d. Carincross, Coldingham, BEW, 732/01 0044, copy d/loaded Feb 2010.
  4. [S15] RUNCIMAN DNA Project online at http://dnasurnames.info/lineages/spRUNCIMANLineages.htm, Y-DNA matches between descendants of assumed siblings Thomas and John RUNCIMAN, rcvd Jun 2014.
  5. [S102] Scotlands People Index, "OPR East Lothian, SCT RUNCIMAN Births 1538-1854", Birth (bap?) 9 May 1784 John s/o Thomas RUNCIMAN & Jean SIMPSON, Dunbar, 706/ 0030 0116, extracted from index Feb 2010.
  6. [S102] Scotlands People Index, "OPR East Lothian, SCT RUNCIMAN Births 1538-1854", Birth (bap?) 17 Oct 1798 George s/o Thomas RUNCIMAN & Jean SIMPSON, Innerwick, 711/ 0030 0259, extracted from index Feb 2010.
  7. [S3] Lorna Henderson, "RUNCIMAN Analysis", Apr 2010.
  8. [S56] Scottish BMDB entries (from 1855), http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/index.php, Dth 1871 John RUNCIMAN, Dist 685/2 Pg 102 #304, Edinburgh St Andrew, MLN, copy d/loaded Apr 2007.
  9. [S15] RUNCIMAN DNA Project online at http://dnasurnames.info/lineages/spRUNCIMANLineages.htm, Oct 2011.
  10. [S3] Lorna Henderson, "RUNCIMAN Analysis", Thomas and Jean (SIMPSON) RUNCIMAN, more likely parents for the Thomas born c 1791, who married Mary REDPATH (1812 Innerwick), added Feb 2010.
  11. [S204] 1861 Census images, England & Wales, via Ancestry.com, Civil Par. Pittington, Sub Dist St Nicholas, DUR, RG9/3743 ED 18 F 12 Pg 1 Sched 1, hsehold of John & Isabella RUNCIMAN, extracted Feb 2010.
  12. [S3] Lorna Henderson, "RUNCIMAN Analysis", Thomas and Elspeth (KEMP) RUNCIMAN, possible parents (rejected) for the Thomas born c 1791, who married Mary REDPATH (1812 Innerwick), added Feb 2010.
  13. [S203] 1851 Census transcripts, Scotland, via Ancestry.com, Skaithmoor, Coldstream, BEW Par. 733 ED 3 Pg 7 Sched 15, hsehold of Thomas & Mary RUNCIMAN, extracted Feb 2010.
  14. [S2505] Rootsweb Mailing List online at http://lists.rootsweb.com, Marr. 5 Dec 1812 Thomas RUNCIMAN & Mary REDPATH, Innerwick, ELN, posted Feb 2001, extracted Mar 2010.
  15. [S15] RUNCIMAN DNA Project online at http://dnasurnames.info/lineages/spRUNCIMANLineages.htm, Apr 2010, updated Mar 2012 and Jun 2016.
  16. [S3] Lorna Henderson, "RUNCIMAN Analysis", Feb 2010.
  17. [S56] Scottish BMDB entries (from 1855), http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/index.php, Dth 4 Sep 1880 Thomas s/o Peter RUNCIMAN & Jane SMITH, wdr/o Isobella CRAIG, Dunbar, ELN 706/00 0063, copy d/loaded Feb 2010.
  18. [S201] 1841 Census transcripts, Scotland, via Ancestry.com, Oxenridge, Coldstream BEW Par. 733 ED 7 Pg 8, hsehold of Thomas & Mary RUNCIAMAN, extracted Feb 2010.
  19. [S206] 1871 Census images, England & Wales, via Ancestry.com, Pittington, DUR RG10/4968 ED 18 F 28 Pg 1 Sched 1, hsehold of John & Isabella RUNCIMAN, extracted Feb 2010.
  20. [S209] 1881 Census transcripts, Scotland, via Ancestry.com, Chirnside, BEW Reg. 730 ED 4 Pg 2 Sched 8, hsehold of George & Janet SMITH, extracted Feb 2010.
  21. [S5] Ancestry.com online at http://search.ancestry.com, Dth Jul 1859 Mary RUNCIMAN, aged 68 Allen Twp, Warren? Co, IA, from Mortality Schedules to 1 Jun 1860, extracted Mar 2010.
  22. [S3217] WikiTree online at http://WikiTree.com/, Oct-11.
  23. [S15] RUNCIMAN DNA Project online at http://dnasurnames.info/lineages/spRUNCIMANLineages.htm, Apr 2010.
  24. [S3352] Jere Runciman (R-18), "EM RUNCIMAN, Jere," e-mail to Lorna Henderson, Rcvd May 2014.
  25. [S102] Scotlands People Index, "OPR East Lothian, SCT RUNCIMAN Births 1538-1854", Birth (bap?) 10 Oct 1813 Catharine d/o Thomas RUNCIMAN & Mary RIDPATH, Oldhamstocks, 714/ 0010 0391, extracted from index Feb 2010.
  26. [S1597] FamilySearch Labs Record Search (LDS) online at http://search.labs.familysearch.org/recordsearch/, Birth 21 Sep Bap. (Oldhamstocks, ELN) 10 Oct 1813 Catharine d/o Thomas RUNCIMAN & Mary RIDPATH, from Scotland, Births and Baptisms, 1564-1950 batch C11714-2 film 1067853, extracted Aug 2012.
  27. [S2903] Lawrence FLETCHER, "RUNCIMAN/WISHART/JAMIESON Corres. ex Lawrence F," e-mail to Lorna Henderson, Dth 31 Jul 1895 Thomas s/o Thomas RUNCIMAN & Mary REDPATH, Quixwood, Abbey St Bathans, BEW, 726/00 Pg 2 #4, copy rcvd Feb 2010.
  28. [S2021] Alethea, "EMAIL: RUNCIMAN ex Alethea," e-mail to Lorna Henderson, Birth 25 Oct 1818 John s/o Thomas RUNCIMAN (b. c 1791) Innerwick, ELN, rcvd Feb 2000.
  29. [S102] Scotlands People Index, "OPR East Lothian, SCT RUNCIMAN Births 1538-1854", Birth (Bap?) 8 May 1821 Mary and Jean dtrs of Thomas RUNCIMAN & Mary REDPATH, Innerwick, ELN 711/ 0050 0008, extracted from index Feb 2010.
  30. [S1597] FamilySearch Labs Record Search (LDS) online at http://search.labs.familysearch.org/recordsearch/, Birth 22 Apr Bap. (Innerwick, ELN) 8 May 1821 Mary & Jean dtrs/o Thomas RUNCIMAN & Mary REDPATH, from Scotland, Births and Baptisms, 1564-1950 batch C11711-6 film 1067850, extracted Aug 2012.
  31. [S1597] FamilySearch Labs Record Search (LDS) online at http://search.labs.familysearch.org/recordsearch/, Birth 16 Apr Bap. (Oldhamstocks, ELN) 1 May 1827 William s/o Thomas RUNSIMAN & Mary REDPATH, from Scotland, Births and Baptisms, 1564-1950 batch C11714-4 film 1067853, extracted Aug 2012.
 
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