John Runciman (m. Mary Wetherly)1,2,3,4

(2 May 1784 - bet. 1816 - 1841)
Father*Thomas Runciman (m. Jean SIMPSON)1,5,6,4 (circa Jul 1762 - bet. 1841 - 1851)
Mother*Jean Simpson1,7,6 (bet. 1756 - 1761 - bet. 1841 - 1851)

Intro

     Does a tailor become a hind? Are there two families here or one?
With the differences in occupation I had doubts about my identification of these family connections, however "reasonable" they seemed when I first made them.
My answer is now yes, as at least the son of a taylor does indeed become a hind/land steward. I had the answer all along, the death cert. of son John clearly shows his father (John married to Marion Weatherly) as a land steward.

The tailor connection:
1783: Thomas Runciman and Jean Simpson marry in Haddington, Thomas a taylor, (recorded in the Dunbar OPR)
1784: John, son of Thomas and Jean (Simpson), taylor at Broxburn born/baptised
This John is linked to the one married to May/Marion Weatherly through the latter 's marriage which gives John's father as Thomas, albeit with no occupations listed for either father or son.
An earlier Thomas was a tailor, eg 1770 bap. Alexander s/o Thomas and Barbara Wallis - which latter surname features as a witness somewhere (yet to be refound)

The farming connections (which may or may not indicate a different family despite the same wife's names):
1798: at Crawhill: a son George born to Thomas a hind.
1808 Isabella born to John and May (Weatherly) which may be the link crossing the boundary between tailor Thomas and hind Thomas.
1871 death of John son of John and Marion (Weatherly) in Edinburgh, father John shown as a land steward, deceased.

1869 Robert (married to Agnes King) is linked because his death cert states his father as Thomas, ag labourer, but mother not named
1885 Thomas (married to Mary Redpath) is linked because his death cert states his parents as Thomas, general labourer, and Jane, albeit without a surname for Jane.

Alexander (married to Joan Manderson) is linked to farming Thomas by naming pattern of his children, and because a Thomas, hind was witness to several of his children's baptisms, at Mickle Pinkerton, which place features in several earlier entries in the Dunbar OPRs, eg birth of George 1734 to Thomas and Helen (Stevensone).

Alexander, possibly this one, is linked as witness to marriage of John and Marion Weatherly at Oldhamstocks (banns Innerwick where father Thomas was cautioner for the groom)

Once Alexander is linked in, this also links in the George married to Janet Darling, as their respective children Agnes and George are documented on their 1861 marriage cert as first cousins.
With large gaps in the known children for George and Janet there was room to fit in a son Thomas, who has now been found (died Edinburgh 1877) to add naming pattern into the evidence for the prosecution

Until I found the Crawhill connection I was coming to the conclusion that there were two families, but even with the Crawhill connection between Alexander's and John's families, it still isn't really "proof" that they are one family but could be indicative of two Johns, one son of the tailor, the other married to May Weatherly.7,3,8
     

BDMs

     John Runciman was born on 2 May 1784 Broxburn, Par. of Dunbar, ELN, SCT.6 He was baptized on 9 May 1784 in the Par. of Dunbar, ELN, SCT; entry reads: Born 2d May & Baptized 9th 1784 John Runciman son of Thos Runciman Taylor in Broxburn and Jean Simpson his wife. Wits: Alexr Runciman & Robt Wallace.1,9 He married Marion Weatherlie on 28 Nov 1806 Stockbridge, Par. of Oldhamstocks, ELN, SCT; entry for Nov 15th (Innerwick) reads: Booked names in order to marriage - John Runciman in this parish and Marion Weatherlie in the parish of Oldhamstocks - Thomas Runciman (his father) for the Bridgegroom and John Weatherlie (her Father) for the Bride, Cautioners. Proclaimed according to oder and married.
Also Oldhamstocks: 28 November 1806 John Runciman in the parish of Innerwick and Marrion Weatherly, in this parish, were lawfully married at Stockbridge upon certificates from both parishes bearing their orderly proclamation and no objections offered to the contrary before these witnesses Alexander Runciman and John Weatherly. ( Also a dtr Jean Cockburnspath 1809.)2,10,3,4,11,5
     John Runciman died bet. 1816 - 1841 ?BEW, SCT.3
We have a conundrum.
Admittedly incomplete paper trails led to the inclusion of the following as children of Thomas and Jean:
John who married to Marion/May Weatherley,
Alexander who married Joan Manderson,
Thomas who married Mary Redpath,
Robert who married Agnes King,
George who married Janet Darling,
and of the William who married Janet Paxton.

The initial three sets of dna results for some of the above showed the theory might be a bit flawed, three kits, none matching the other, but one (descendant of John) matching others in Lineage 1 overall
However as of Jun 2014 a fourth kit, from the line of son Thomas, gave us a match between descendants of John and Thomas, both matching the rest of Lineage 1.
Jun 2016 brought in a representative from son George, and yet another match, so 4 lines now tested with 5 kits, with John, Thomas and George now looking good as sons of Thomas and Mary.

We still need Robert and Alexander represented, and a confirming dna signature from son William however.

As the line of William and Janet (Paxton) Runciman appears to have "daughtered out" on the lines other than the 1st cousins of the participant already tested, it may be that we have to look for descendants of any lines willing to try autosomal dna (FamilyFinder) - although that may be a bit of a long shot, given the randomness of atDNA inheritance, especially when trying to find DNA matches on relationships beyond 3rd cousins.12

DNA Info

     John belongs to a tested line in the RUNCIMAN Surname DNA Project. Follow this link for further DNA information.

Links

     Click here to see John's page on WikiTree, a (free) collaborative on-line tree.13

Family

Mary Wetherly (Jan 1784 - bet. 1861 - 1871)
Children
ChartsLineage 1d: Alexander & Janet (HENDRIE) RUNCIMAN of Dunbar, ELN
Wanted: Thomas and Jean (Simpson) Runciman
Last Edited27 Jun 2014

Citations

  1. [S102] Scotlands People Index, "OPR East Lothian, SCT RUNCIMAN Births 1538-1854", Birth (bap.?) 9 May 1784 John s/o Thomas RUNCiMAN & Jean SIMPSON, Dunbar, ELN 706/ 0030 0116, extracted from index Mar 2010.
  2. [S104] Scotlands People Index, "OPR Berwick, SCT, RUNCIMAN Births 1538-1854", Birth (bap.?) 1 Sep 1811 Thomas s/o John RUNCIMAN & May WEATHERLY, Langton, BEW, 747/ 0010 0077, extracted from index Mar 2010.
  3. [S56] Scottish BMDB entries (from 1855), http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/index.php, Dth 1871 John RUNCIMAN, Dist 685/2 Pg 102 #304, Edinburgh St Andrew, MLN, copy d/loaded Apr 2007.
  4. [S3082] Rootsweb: RUNCIMAN Mailing List online at http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/index/surname/r/…, Marr. 15 Nov 1806 John (in this parish) s/o Thomas RUNCIMAN; and Marion (Par. of Oldhamstocks), d/o John WEATHERLIE, Innerwick, ELN, from "Parish Church of Innerwick Film #1067850, transcribed by Patsy, Christchurch, NZ, posted by Alethea, Feb 2001, extracted Feb 2010.
  5. [S55] Scottish BMDB entries (to 1854), http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/index.php, Marr. 15 Nov 1806 John RUNCIMAN (Innerwick s/o Thomas) & Marion WEATHERLIE (Oldhamstocks, d/o John), Innerwick, ELN, 711/0030 0406, copy d/loaded Apr 2010.
  6. [S55] Scottish BMDB entries (to 1854), http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/index.php, Birth 2 May Bap. 9 May 1784 John s/o Thomas RUNCiMAN (taylor of Broxburgn) & Jean SIMPSON, Dunbar, ELN 706/ 0030 0116, copy d/loaded Apr 2010.
  7. [S3] Lorna Henderson, "RUNCIMAN Analysis", Apr 2010.
  8. [S15] RUNCIMAN DNA Project online at http://dnasurnames.info/lineages/spRUNCIMANLineages.htm, Oct 2011.
  9. [S55] Scottish BMDB entries (to 1854), http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/index.php, Birth 2 May Bap. 9 May 1784 John s/o Thomas RUNCiMAN (taylor of Broxburn) & Jean SIMPSON, Dunbar, ELN 706/ 0030 0116, copy d/loaded Apr 2010.
  10. [S102] Scotlands People Index, "OPR East Lothian, SCT RUNCIMAN Births 1538-1854", Birth (or bap.) 14 Mar 1808 Isabel d/o John RUNCIMAN & May WEATHERLY, Innerwick, ELN, 711/ 0030 0288, extracted from index Apr 2010.
  11. [S2913] Bronwen DEMMOCKS, "RUNCIMAN/WEATHERLY Corres.," e-mail to Lorna Henderson, Marr. 28 Nov 1806 John RUNCIMAN (Innerwick) & Marrion WEATHERLY (Oldhamstocks), at Stockbridge, Par. of Oldhamstocks, ELN, transcr. from GR tree, extracted Apr 2010.
  12. [S15] RUNCIMAN DNA Project online at http://dnasurnames.info/lineages/spRUNCIMANLineages.htm, Apr 2010, updated Mar 2012 and Jun 2016.
  13. [S3217] WikiTree online at http://WikiTree.com/, Oct-11.
  14. [S3082] Rootsweb: RUNCIMAN Mailing List online at http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/index/surname/r/…, Birth 8 Mar Bap. 14 Mar 1808 Isabel d/o John RUNICMAN (hind, Crawhills) & May WEATHERLEY, transcr. by Patsy, Chch, NZ, from Innerwick Baptisms, film 1067850, posted by Alethea, Feb 2001, extracted Apr 2010.
  15. [S104] Scotlands People Index, "OPR Berwick, SCT, RUNCIMAN Births 1538-1854", Birth (bap.?) 13 Feb 1814 John s/o John RUNCIMAN & May WEATHERLY, Eccles, BEW, 737/ 0040 0149, extracted from index Mar 2010.
  16. [S104] Scotlands People Index, "OPR Berwick, SCT, RUNCIMAN Births 1538-1854", Birth (bap.?) 3 Sep 1816 James s/o John RUNCIMAN & May WATHERLIE, Coldingham, BEW, 732/ 0060 0262, extracted from index Mar 2010.
 
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