Thomas Runciman (m. Jean SIMPSON)1,2

(circa Jul 1762 - bet. 1841 - 1851)
Father*Thomas Runciman3,4 (circa Dec 1728 - aft. 1770)
Mother*Barbara Wallace3 (say 1730 - )

Intro

     Does a tailor become a hind? Are there two families here or one?
With the differences in occupation I had doubts about my identification of these family connections, however "reasonable" they seemed when I first made them.
My answer is now yes, as at least the son of a taylor does indeed become a hind/land steward. I had the answer all along, the death cert. of son John clearly shows his father (John married to Marion Weatherly) as a land steward.

The tailor connection:
1783: Thomas Runciman and Jean Simpson marry in Haddington, Thomas a taylor, (recorded in the Dunbar OPR)
1784: John, son of Thomas and Jean (Simpson), taylor at Broxburn born/baptised
This John is linked to the one married to May/Marion Weatherly through the latter 's marriage which gives John's father as Thomas, albeit with no occupations listed for either father or son.
An earlier Thomas was a tailor, eg 1770 bap. Alexander s/o Thomas and Barbara Wallis - which latter surname features as a witness somewhere (yet to be refound)

The farming connections (which may or may not indicate a different family despite the same wife's names):
1798: at Crawhill: a son George born to Thomas a hind.
1808 Isabella born to John and May (Weatherly) which may be the link crossing the boundary between tailor Thomas and hind Thomas.
1871 death of John son of John and Marion (Weatherly) in Edinburgh, father John shown as a land steward, deceased.

1869 Robert (married to Agnes King) is linked because his death cert states his father as Thomas, ag labourer, but mother not named
1885 Thomas (married to Mary Redpath) is linked because his death cert states his parents as Thomas, general labourer, and Jane, albeit without a surname for Jane.

Alexander (married to Joan Manderson) is linked to farming Thomas by naming pattern of his children, and because a Thomas, hind was witness to several of his children's baptisms, at Mickle Pinkerton, which place features in several earlier entries in the Dunbar OPRs, eg birth of George 1734 to Thomas and Helen (Stevensone).

Alexander, possibly this one, is linked as witness to marriage of John and Marion Weatherly at Oldhamstocks (banns Innerwick where father Thomas was cautioner for the groom)

Once Alexander is linked in, this also links in the George married to Janet Darling, as their respective children Agnes and George are documented on their 1861 marriage cert as first cousins.
With large gaps in the known children for George and Janet there was room to fit in a son Thomas, who has now been found (died Edinburgh 1877) to add naming pattern into the evidence for the prosecution

Until I found the Crawhill connection I was coming to the conclusion that there were two families, but even with the Crawhill connection between Alexander's and John's families, it still isn't really "proof" that they are one family but could be indicative of two Johns, one son of the tailor, the other married to May Weatherly.5,6,7

BDMs

     Thomas Runciman was born circa Jul 1762 Dunbar, ELN, SCT.1,2,8,3 He was baptized on 11 Jul 1762 at Dunbar, East Lothian; Tho. Runciman & Bar. Wallace had Thomas baptised. Wit. Alexr Runciman, Wm. Runciman (assumed to be Thomas' father and brother.)3,8,9 He married Jean Simpson on 7 Jun 1783 Haddington, ELN, SCT; entry reads: Thos Runciman of the Parish of Dunbar Taylor & Jean Simpson same parish were married at Haddington on the 7th June 1783 (only RUNCIMAN/SIMPSON marr. in SctP is Thomas/Jean 1783 Dunbar.)10,11,1
     Thomas Runciman died bet. 1841 - 1851 ?Belhaven, Dunbar Burgh, ELN, SCT; (with all the families claiming this chap I do so hope that he wasn't the "Thomas Runciman, a child" who was accorded the best little mortcloth in Jun 1770 at Dunbar.)12,13
We have a conundrum.
Admittedly incomplete paper trails led to the inclusion of the following as children of Thomas and Jean:
John who married to Marion/May Weatherley,
Alexander who married Joan Manderson,
Thomas who married Mary Redpath,
Robert who married Agnes King,
George who married Janet Darling,
and of the William who married Janet Paxton.

The initial three sets of dna results for some of the above showed the theory might be a bit flawed, three kits, none matching the other, but one (descendant of John) matching others in Lineage 1 overall
However as of Jun 2014 a fourth kit, from the line of son Thomas, gave us a match between descendants of John and Thomas, both matching the rest of Lineage 1.
Jun 2016 brought in a representative from son George, and yet another match, so 4 lines now tested with 5 kits, with John, Thomas and George now looking good as sons of Thomas and Mary.

We still need Robert and Alexander represented, and a confirming dna signature from son William however.

As the line of William and Janet (Paxton) Runciman appears to have "daughtered out" on the lines other than the 1st cousins of the participant already tested, it may be that we have to look for descendants of any lines willing to try autosomal dna (FamilyFinder) - although that may be a bit of a long shot, given the randomness of atDNA inheritance, especially when trying to find DNA matches on relationships beyond 3rd cousins.14

The 3 separate families of:
Thomas bap. to Thomas RUNCIMAN and Barbara WALLACE
Thomas marr. to Jean SIMPSON
Thomas & Christina SIMPSON, parents (according to William's dth cert) of the William married to Janet PAXTON
have been merged.
The latter because there is no immediately obvious Christina SIMPSON in the OPRs, but there is a Jean in the right timeframe and married to a chap of the right name/place etc.
Further DNA evidence would be gratefully received to back this up!15,9

Census

     Thomas Runciman appeared on the census of 1841 Belhaven, Dunbar Burgh, ELN, SCT, with Jane Runciman, as RUNCIMAN: Thos 80 labourer; Jane 80 both b ELN (two doors away were Peter and Christina REDPATH and nearby a WALLACE and PAXTON) (NB enumerators were instructed to round ages down to the nearest multiple of 5.)12

Names/other info

     On 28 Nov 1806 Stockbridge, Par. of Oldhamstocks, ELN, SCT, Thomas Runciman was a cautioner at the marriage of John Runciman and Marion Weatherlie; entry for Nov 15th (Innerwick) reads: Booked names in order to marriage - John Runciman in this parish and Marion Weatherlie in the parish of Oldhamstocks - Thomas Runciman (his father) for the Bridgegroom and John Weatherlie (her Father) for the Bride, Cautioners. Proclaimed according to oder and married.
Also Oldhamstocks: 28 November 1806 John Runciman in the parish of Innerwick and Marrion Weatherly, in this parish, were lawfully married at Stockbridge upon certificates from both parishes bearing their orderly proclamation and no objections offered to the contrary before these witnesses Alexander Runciman and John Weatherly. ( Also a dtr Jean Cockburnspath 1809.)16,17,6,18,19,20 Thomas Runciman is possibly the witness to the marriage of Alexander Runciman and Joan Manderson on 29 May 1810 Dunbar, ELN, SCT.21,22,23,24
     It is possible that Thomas Runciman witnessed the baptism of Isabel Runciman on 9 Aug 1812 in the Par. of Dunbar, ELN, SCT; 1812 Born 24 July Baptised 9 August Isabel RUNCIMAN dau. of Alexr, hind in Mickle Pinkerton, & Joan MANDERSON his wife. Wit. Thomas RUNCIMAN, William MANDERSON
(Thomas assumed to be Alexander's father.)25,5
     It is possible that Thomas Runciman witnessed the baptism of Alexander Runciman on 2 Jun 1816 in Dunbar, East Lothian; Born May 19 Baptised 2 June Alexander RUNCIMAN son of Alexr RUNCIMAN, hind in Mickle Pinkerton, & Joan MANDERSON his wife.
Wit. Thos RUNCIMAN. William MANDERSON
(Thos assumed to be Alexander's father.)26,27
     It is possible that Thomas Runciman witnessed the baptism of Thomas Runciman on 19 Jul 1818 in Dunbar, East Lothian; Born 8 Baptised 19 July Thomas RUNCIMAN son of Alexr RUNCIMAN, hind in Mickle Pinkerton, & Joan MANDERSON his wife. Wit. Thomas RUNCIMAN & William MANDERSON(Thos assumed to be Alexander's father.)28,29

DNA Info

     Thomas's line needs a/another participant in the RUNCIMAN Surname DNA Project. Check out the Wanted! page for further information.

Links

     Click here to see Thomas's page on WikiTree, a (free) collaborative on-line tree.30

Family

Jean Simpson (bet. 1756 - 1761 - bet. 1841 - 1851)
Children
ChartsLineage 1d: Alexander & Janet (HENDRIE) RUNCIMAN of Dunbar, ELN
Wanted: Thomas and Jean (Simpson) Runciman
Last Edited15 Oct 2016

Citations

  1. [S56] Scottish BMDB entries (from 1855), http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/index.php, Dth 3 Dec 1885 Thomas s/o Thomas & Jane RUNCIMAN, aged 99 yrs 11 mths, d. Carincross, Coldingham, BEW, 732/01 0044, copy d/loaded Feb 2010.
  2. [S3082] Rootsweb: RUNCIMAN Mailing List online at http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/index/surname/r/…, Marr. 15 Nov 1806 John (in this parish) s/o Thomas RUNCIMAN; and Marion (Par. of Oldhamstocks), d/o John WEATHERLIE; at Innerwick, ELN, from "Parish Church of Innerwick Film #1067850, transcribed by Patsy, Christchurch, NZ, posted by Alethea, Feb 2001, extracted Feb 2010.
  3. [S102] Scotlands People Index, "OPR East Lothian, SCT RUNCIMAN Births 1538-1854", Birth (Bap.) 11 Jul 1762 Thomas s/o Thomas RUNCIMAN & Barbara WALLACE, Dunbar, ELN, 706/ 0020 0227, extracted from index Jun 2010.
  4. [S2921] ELN OPR (transcripts by Barbara Samples) Dunbar: Dunbar, ELN, Bap. 22 Dec 1728 Thomas s/o Alexander RUNSIMAN & Janet HENDRIE, extracted Jun 2010 (Bap (1687-1854); Marriages (1651 - 1820); Deaths (1737 - 1819)).
  5. [S3] Lorna Henderson, "RUNCIMAN Analysis", Apr 2010.
  6. [S56] Scottish BMDB entries (from 1855), http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/index.php, Dth 1871 John RUNCIMAN, Dist 685/2 Pg 102 #304, Edinburgh St Andrew, MLN, copy d/loaded Apr 2007.
  7. [S15] RUNCIMAN DNA Project online at http://dnasurnames.info/lineages/spRUNCIMANLineages.htm, Oct 2011.
  8. [S2921] ELN OPR (transcripts by Barbara Samples) Dunbar: Dunbar, ELN, Bap. 11 Jul 1762 Thomas s/o Tho. RUNCIMAN & Bar. WALLACE, Wit: Alexr. & Wm. RUNCIMAN, extracted Jun 2010 (Bap (1687-1854); Marriages (1651 - 1820); Deaths (1737 - 1819)).
  9. [S3] Lorna Henderson, "RUNCIMAN Analysis", Jun 2010.
  10. [S103] Scotlands People Index, "OPR East Lothian SctP RUNCIMAN Marriages 1538-1854", Marr. 7 Jun 1783 Thomas RUNCIMAN & Jean SIMPSON, Dunbar, 706/ 0050 0071, extracted from index Feb 2010.
  11. [S55] Scottish BMDB entries (to 1854), http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/index.php, Marr. 7 Jun 1783 Thomas RUNCIMAN (taylor) & Jean SIMPSON, both of Par. of Dunbar, married Haddington, in Dunbar, ELN, 706/ 0050 0071, copy d/loaded Apr 2010.
  12. [S201] 1841 Census transcripts, Scotland, via Ancestry.com, Belhaven, Par. of Dunbar, ELN Par. 706 ED 8 Pg 9, hsehold of Thos & Jane RUNCIMAN, extracted Jun 2010.
  13. [S55] Scottish BMDB entries (to 1854), http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/index.php, Mortcloth 1 Jun 1770 Thomas RUNCIMAN, "a child", Dunbar, ELN 706/00 0060 0057, copy d/loaded May 2012.
  14. [S15] RUNCIMAN DNA Project online at http://dnasurnames.info/lineages/spRUNCIMANLineages.htm, Apr 2010, updated Mar 2012 and Jun 2016.
  15. [S1045] H D W, "RUNCIMAN Correspondence," e-mail to L Henderson (1), Family tree Alexander RUNSIMAN & Janet HENDRIE, original rcvd by Harry in 1993 from Margaret TAYLOR nee BLAKE, Perth, SCT, copy rcvd Jun 2010.
  16. [S104] Scotlands People Index, "OPR Berwick, SCT, RUNCIMAN Births 1538-1854", Birth (bap.?) 1 Sep 1811 Thomas s/o John RUNCIMAN & May WEATHERLY, Langton, BEW, 747/ 0010 0077, extracted from index Mar 2010.
  17. [S102] Scotlands People Index, "OPR East Lothian, SCT RUNCIMAN Births 1538-1854", Birth (or bap.) 14 Mar 1808 Isabel d/o John RUNCIMAN & May WEATHERLY, Innerwick, ELN, 711/ 0030 0288, extracted from index Apr 2010.
  18. [S3082] Rootsweb: RUNCIMAN Mailing List online at http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/index/surname/r/…, Marr. 15 Nov 1806 John (in this parish) s/o Thomas RUNCIMAN; and Marion (Par. of Oldhamstocks), d/o John WEATHERLIE, Innerwick, ELN, from "Parish Church of Innerwick Film #1067850, transcribed by Patsy, Christchurch, NZ, posted by Alethea, Feb 2001, extracted Feb 2010.
  19. [S2913] Bronwen DEMMOCKS, "RUNCIMAN/WEATHERLY Corres.," e-mail to Lorna Henderson, Marr. 28 Nov 1806 John RUNCIMAN (Innerwick) & Marrion WEATHERLY (Oldhamstocks), at Stockbridge, Par. of Oldhamstocks, ELN, transcr. from GR tree, extracted Apr 2010.
  20. [S55] Scottish BMDB entries (to 1854), http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/index.php, Marr. 15 Nov 1806 John RUNCIMAN (Innerwick s/o Thomas) & Marion WEATHERLIE (Oldhamstocks, d/o John), Innerwick, ELN, 711/0030 0406, copy d/loaded Apr 2010.
  21. [S56] Scottish BMDB entries (from 1855), http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/index.php, Mar. cert 1861 George RUNCIMAN and Agnes RUNCIMAN, copy d/loaded Sep 2005, (706 #30).
  22. [S102] Scotlands People Index, "OPR East Lothian, SCT RUNCIMAN Births 1538-1854", Birth (or bap.) 7 Jul 1811 Thomas s/o Alexander RUNCIMAN & Joan MANDERSON, Dunbar, ELN 711/ 0030 0297, extracted from index Apr 2010.
  23. [S103] Scotlands People Index, "OPR East Lothian SctP RUNCIMAN Marriages 1538-1854", Marr. 29 May 1810 Alexander RUNCIMAN & Joan MANDERSON, Dunbar, ELN 706/ 0050 0201 (also 18 May Innerwick, 711/ 0030 0412), extracted from index Apr 2010.
  24. [S2505] Rootsweb Mailing List online at http://lists.rootsweb.com, Marr. 18 May 1810 Alexander RUNCIMAN & Joane MANDERSON, Par. of Innerwick, posted Feb 2001 by Alethea, from film 1067850, extracted by Patsy, Christchurch , extracted Apr 2010.
  25. [S2505] Rootsweb Mailing List online at http://lists.rootsweb.com, Birth 24 Jul Bap. 9 Aug 1812 Isabel d/o Alexr RUNCIMAN (hind Mickle Pinkerton) & Joan MANDERSON, Par. of Dunbar, posted Nov 2001 by Barbara SAMPLES, extracted Apr 2010.
  26. [S102] Scotlands People Index, "OPR East Lothian, SCT RUNCIMAN Births 1538-1854", Birth (or bap.) 2 Jun 1816 Alexander s/o Alexander RUNCIMAN & Joan MANDERSON, Dunbar, ELN 706/ 0040 0176, extracted from index Apr 2010.
  27. [S2505] Rootsweb Mailing List online at http://lists.rootsweb.com, Brth 19 May Bap. 2 Jun 1816 Alexander s/o Alexr RUNCIMAN (hind Mickle Pinkerton) & Joan MANDERSON, Par. of Dunbar, posted Nov 2001 by Barbara SAMPLES, extracted Apr 2010.
  28. [S102] Scotlands People Index, "OPR East Lothian, SCT RUNCIMAN Births 1538-1854", Birth (or bap.) 19 Jul 1818 Thomas s/o Alexander RUNCIMAN & Joan MANDERSON, Dunbar, ELN 706/ 0040 0193, extracted from index Apr 2010.
  29. [S2505] Rootsweb Mailing List online at http://lists.rootsweb.com, Brth 8 Jul Bap. 19 Jul 1818 Thomas s/o Alexr RUNCIMAN (hind Mickle Pinkerton) & Joan MANDERSON, Par. of Dunbar, posted Nov 2001 by Barbara SAMPLES, extracted Apr 2010.
  30. [S3217] WikiTree online at http://WikiTree.com/, Oct-11.
  31. [S102] Scotlands People Index, "OPR East Lothian, SCT RUNCIMAN Births 1538-1854", Birth (bap.?) 9 May 1784 John s/o Thomas RUNCiMAN & Jean SIMPSON, Dunbar, ELN 706/ 0030 0116, extracted from index Mar 2010.
  32. [S55] Scottish BMDB entries (to 1854), http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/index.php, Birth 2 May Bap. 9 May 1784 John s/o Thomas RUNCiMAN (taylor of Broxburgn) & Jean SIMPSON, Dunbar, ELN 706/ 0030 0116, copy d/loaded Apr 2010.
  33. [S102] Scotlands People Index, "OPR East Lothian, SCT RUNCIMAN Births 1538-1854", Birth (bap?) 9 May 1784 John s/o Thomas RUNCIMAN & Jean SIMPSON, Dunbar, 706/ 0030 0116, extracted from index Feb 2010.
  34. [S102] Scotlands People Index, "OPR East Lothian, SCT RUNCIMAN Births 1538-1854", Birth (bap?) 17 Oct 1798 George s/o Thomas RUNCIMAN & Jean SIMPSON, Innerwick, 711/ 0030 0259, extracted from index Feb 2010.
  35. [S15] RUNCIMAN DNA Project online at http://dnasurnames.info/lineages/spRUNCIMANLineages.htm, Y-DNA matches between descendants of assumed siblings Thomas and John RUNCIMAN, rcvd Jun 2014.
  36. [S56] Scottish BMDB entries (from 1855), http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/index.php, Dth 5 May 1869 Robert s/o Thomas RUNCIMAN, East Linton, Par. of Prestonkirk, County of Haddington, (ELN), copy d/loaded Mar 2010.
  37. [S56] Scottish BMDB entries (from 1855), http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/index.php, Dth 28 Dec 1858 William RUNCIMAN, reg. Par. of Borthwick, MLN, 674/00 Pg 10 #30, copy d/loaded Jun 2010.
 
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